Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/15/1993 01:43 PM Senate HES
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SENATE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE
March 15, 1993
1:43 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Steve Rieger, Chairman
Senator Bert Sharp, Vice-Chairman
Senator Loren Leman
Senator Mike Miller
Senator Jim Duncan
Senator Johnny Ellis
Senator Judy Salo
MEMBERS ABSENT
All Present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE RESOLUTION NO. 2
Urging the Environmental Protection Agency to suspend the
oxygenated fuels program in Anchorage, Alaska.
SENATE BILL NO. 101
"An Act relating to eligibility for and payments of public
assistance; and providing for an effective date."
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
SR 2 - No previous action to record.
SB 101 - See HESS minutes dated 3/10/93 and 3/12/93.
WITNESS REGISTER
Senator Dave Donley
Alaska State Legislature
State Capitol Building
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of SR 2.
Robert Gigler
Oxy Busters
7447 O'Brien Street
Anchorage, Alaska 99507
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SR 2.
Mike O'Callaghan
1540 Medfra
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SR 2.
Len Verrelli
Air Quality Management Section
Department of Environmental Conservation
410 Willoughby Avenue
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1795
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SR 2.
Jan Hansen, Director
Division of Public Assistance
Department of Health and Social Services
P.O. Box 110640
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0640
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered question on SB 101.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 93-24, SIDE A
Number 001
CHAIRMAN RIEGER called the Senate Health, Education and
Social Services (HESS) Committee to order at 1:43 p.m.
The first order of business was SR 2 (SUSPEND OXYGENATED
FUELS PROGRAM), sponsored by Senator Donley. SENATOR DONLEY
said SR 2 was introduced by recommendation of the Division
of Health, Section of Epidemiology, Department of Health and
Social Services. They requested that the oxygenated fuel
program, in Anchorage, be suspended based on their research
into the matter and the amount of complaints they have
received relating to health consequences linked to the
breathing of the oxygenated fuel. Senator Donley said he
has received an overwhelming amount of public opinion
messages, letters, and phone calls from Anchorage residents
calling for the suspension of the program. He noted that
the governor worked with the Environmental Protection Agency
(EPA) to suspend the program in Fairbanks area.
Approximately 18,000 signatures have been gathered on
petitions in opposition. Senator Stevens has announced that
he'll be seeking federal legislation to exempt Alaska from
having to use oxygenated fuel. Senator Donley said the
resolution calls for the suspension of the mandated use of
oxygenated fuels until it is proven to be safe.
CHAIRMAN RIEGER discussed an article he saw in Forbes
Magazine which spoke to methods of monitoring for pollution.
Number 060
SENATOR LEMAN said he recently read an article that in
Fairbanks some blood samples indicated trace levels of
methyl tertiary butyl ether (MTBE). He asked Senator Donley
if he is aware of any samples in Anchorage that have also
exhibited trace levels of MTBE. Senator Donley said he
isn't aware of any but indicated he would get in touch with
the Epidemiology Section to see if they had conducted
specific blood testing. Senator Donley said he recently
received information from NCSL that pointed out a new higher
technology of auto emission testing. He pointed out the
resolution has a zero fiscal note.
Number 096
ROBERT GIGLER, Oxy Busters, was first to testify on the
measure from Anchorage. He urged that the resolution pass
the Senate with a 20-0 vote. Mr. Gigler requested that the
resolution also include Fairbanks. He referred to page 1,
lines 13 and 14, and said he isn't aware of any studies on
ambient air conducted in Anchorage between November 1, 1992
and March 1, 1993.
MIKE O'CALLAGHAN, Oxy Busters, was next to testify on SR 2.
He said 17,000 signatures were gathered in one month asking
the governor to suspend Oxygenated Fuels Program. He
explained his organization found three problems with the
MTBE additive. There was a health problem, a mechanical
problem, and an economic problem which the State of Alaska
is presently investigating. The price increased 15 cents a
gallon in Alaska, and in Denver it increased 3 cents a
gallon and decreased gas milage by 15 percent. Mr.
O'Callaghan discussed some information and statistics that
he received from Bill Johnston, University of Alaska,
discussing how bad MTBE is. Mr. O'Callaghan said he
supports the resolution and noted it should be for all of
Alaska.
CHAIRMAN RIEGER asked Len Verrelli to come before the
committee to answer some questions. SENATOR MILLER said the
Fairbanks program was suspended on December 11. He asked
how long the suspension would last. LEN VERRELLI, Air
Quality Management Section, Department of Environmental
Conservation, said the suspension concluded March 1st.
Senator Miller noted the resolution calls for a suspension
during the 1993-1994 winter.
Senator Miller said he would like to offer an amendment
where a second "Whereas" would be inserted under the first
one. It would basically say the same thing as the first
whereas clause except the words "December 23, 1992," would
be replaced with "December 11, 1992." The word "Fairbanks"
would replace the word "Anchorage." CHAIRMAN RIEGER asked
if there was an objection to Amendment #1. Hearing no
objection, the motion carried.
Senator Miller indicated he had another amendment. On line
2, add the words "and Fairbanks" after "Anchorage." The
same would be done to lines 8 and 9, and on page 2, lines 1
and 4. The word "program" would also be changed to
"programs." Hearing no objection, the amendment was
adopted.
SENATOR LEMAN referred to page 2, line 1, and suggested
replacing "program so that it is not resumed..." with
"programs so that they are not resumed..." CHAIRMAN RIEGER
asked if there was an objection to Amendment #3. Hearing
none, the motion carried.
MR. VERRELLI indicated that there is a zero fiscal note from
the department. He referred to page 1, line 4, and said it
would be more technically accurate to insert "preliminary
findings of an epidemiology study..." He said the findings
are preliminary findings. Mr. Verrelli also suggested
replacing the word "concluded" on page 1, line 5, with "lead
to the recommendation."
SENATOR DONLEY indicated he didn't have an objection to Mr.
Verrelli's suggested amendment.
CHAIRMAN RIEGER asked Senator Leman to withdraw his motion.
SENATOR LEMAN withdrew his motion.
MR. VERRELLI referred to page 1, line 10 where the word
"oxygenated" is used. He said it would be more technically
correct to say "MTBE-blended oxygenates" as we are dealing
with a whole realm of oxygenates. He suggested the same
change in the title.
Mr. Verrelli referred to page 2, line 1, and suggested that
maybe a moratorium be put in place. The EPA doesn't have
the authorization to suspend the program. He said the
program is a Congressional mandated program in the Clean Air
Act. He suggested petitioning the EPA to ask Congress for a
moratorium. They can't suspend it. So the amendment would
be on page 2, line 1, replace the word "suspend" with
"request a moratorium from Congress for..."
Mr. Verrelli referred to page 2, line 5 and said the bill
calls Carol Browner a "Director" and she is actually the
"Administrator." He suggested adding Mayors Fink and
Sampson to the resolution on page 2, line 8, since they are
deeply involved.
SENATOR LEMAN reviewed his proposed amendment:
Page 1, line 1, insert "MTBE" before the word "oxygenated."
Page 1, line 4, insert "preliminary findings from" after the
word "Whereas." Page 1, line 5, delete "concluded" and
insert "lead to the recommendation." Page 1, line 10,
insert "MTBE" before the word "oxygenated." Page 2, line 1,
delete the word "suspend" and insert "request a moratorium
from Congress for." Page 2, line 5 delete the "Director"
and insert "Administrator." Page 2, line 8, include "Mayor
Fink" and "Mayor Sampson."
CHAIRMAN RIEGER said he has a couple of alterations. He
asked if it is the recommendation of DEC that where there is
reference to the oxygenated fuel program that the correct
wording should be "MTBE-blended oxygenates program." MR.
VERRELLI said "blended" doesn't have to be included.
Chairman Rieger noted the amendment regarding requesting a
moratorium should also be inserted in the title in place of
the word "suspend."
Number 391
SENATOR LEMAN moved his amendment. Hearing no objection,
the motion carried. Senator Leman moved to pass SR 2, as
amended, from the Senate HESS Committee with individual
recommendations. There being no objection, the bill was
passed out of committee.
Number 401
The next order of business to come before the Senate HESS
Committee was SB 101 (ELIGIBILITY FOR PUBLIC ASSISTANCE).
CHAIRMAN RIEGER stated that at the last meeting on SB 101,
the bill was held awaiting some proposed amendments from
Senator Ellis. SENATOR ELLIS said he has four amendments.
He referred to the bill representing seven cuts in a single
year and said there is no idea of what the combined affects
will be on the clients and the state's services. Senator
Ellis said seven cuts in a single year seems like too much
to him. It would be much wiser to phase the cuts in. This
year state employees will get their cost of living increase
as will as others who are entitled to them. Senator Ellis
said there seems to be money for less essential things such
as elk transplants, custom cars, etc.
Senator Ellis moved that Amendment #1 be adopted. Amendment
Page 1, line 13, after "plus":
Insert "$105 for"
Page 1, line 14:
Delete "$98 for"
Page 2, line 3:
Delete "$792"
Insert "$845"
Page 2, line 6:
Delete "$98"
Insert "$105"
Page 2, line 9:
Delete "$497"
Insert "$530"
Page 2, line 19:
Delete "(1)"
Page 2, line 20:
Delete ";or"
Page 2, line 21:
Delete "(2) took effect on or before January 1,
1993"
Page 3, line 8:
Delete "1"
Page 3, lines 9 - 10:
Delete ";or (2) took effect in the calendar years
that began on January 1, 1991, January 1, 1992,
and January 1, 1993"
Page 3, lines 13 - 22:
Delete all material.
Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.
Page 4, line 4:
Delete "10"
Insert "9"
Page 4, line 8:
Delete "8"
Insert "7"
Page 4, line 9:
Delete "1 - 7"
Insert "1 - 6"
He explained that the amendment denies the cost of living
increase but restores the current payment levels meaning no
rateable reduction. SENATOR MILLER objected.
SENATOR DUNCAN stated he would support Senator Ellis'
amendment although he doesn't want to impose any reductions.
Number 429
A roll call vote was taken on Amendment #1. Senators
Rieger, Sharp, Leman, and Miller voted against the
amendment. Senators Duncan, Ellis, and Salo voted in favor
the amendment. So the Amendment #1 failed to be adopted.
SENATOR ELLIS moved that Amendment #2 be adopted. He said
the amendment restores the cost of living increase, but
keeps the rateable reduction. The check amounts will be cut
$78 a month for a woman and her two children under AFDC, but
would include the COLA. Amendment #2 follows:
Page 2, lines 12 - 21:
Delete all material.
Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.
Page 2, line 26, through page 3, line 12:
Delete all material.
Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.
Page 3, line 22:
Delete "took"
Insert "take"
Delete "1994"
Insert "1993"
Page 4, line 4:
Delete "10"
Insert "8"
Page 4, line 8:
Delete "8"
Insert "6"
Page 4, line 9:
Delete "1 - 7"
Insert "1 - 5"
SENATOR LEMAN objected to the motion.
CHAIRMAN RIEGER said he doesn't understand how you can have
a rateable reduction but still keep the cost of living
increase. He asked what it will do to this year's fiscal
impact. JAN HANSEN, Director, Division of Public
Assistance, Department of Health and Social Services,
explained that the AFDC rateable reduction produces a
savings in FY 94 of $8.6 million. To include the COLA, the
amount would be $2.1 million. The impact would be that
there would still be the $8.6 million reduction, but the
$2.1 million of proposed reductions would be added back into
the budget. The impact would be that grants would be cut
immediately by the rateable reduction, but then part of the
that would be restored on January 1, 1994, when the COLA
would be granted.
A roll call vote was taken on the adoption of Amendment #2.
Senators Rieger, Sharp, Leman, and Miller voted against the
amendment. Senators Duncan, Ellis, and Salo voted in favor
of the amendment. So the adoption of Amendment #2 failed.
Number 490
SENATOR ELLIS moved that Amendment #3 be adopted. He
explained that the amendment restores the COLA and proposes
they take the rateable reduction back to the 1992 level for
AFDC and APA instead of the 1991 level that is proposed in
the bill. Amendment #3 follows:
Page 1, line 13 after "plus":
Insert "$102 for"
Page 4, line 14:
Delete "$98 for"
Page 2, line 3:
Delete "$792"
Insert "$821"
Page 2, line 6:
Delete "$98"
Insert "$102"
Page 2, line 9:
Delete "$497"
Insert "$515"
Page 2, lines 12 - 21:
Delete all material
Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.
Page 2, line 26, through page 3, line 12:
Delete all material.
Page 3, line 17:
Delete "1990"
Insert "1992"
Page 3, line 20:
Delete "1990"
Insert "1992"
Page 3, line 22:
Delete "took"
Insert "take"
Delete "1994"
Insert "1993"
Page 4, line 4:
Delete "10"
Insert "8"
Page 4, line 8:
Delete "8"
Insert "6"
Page 4, line 9:
Delete "1 - 7"
Insert "1 - 5"
There was objection to the adoption of Amendment #3.
MS. HANSEN said the amendment restores the COLA at $2.1
million and restores approximately $4 million of the
rateable savings.
A roll call vote was taken on Amendment #3. Senators
Rieger, Sharp, Leman, and Miller voted against the
amendment. Senators Duncan, Ellis, and Salo voted in favor
of the amendment. So Amendment #3 failed to be adopted.
Number 533
SENATOR ELLIS explained that Amendment #4 requires more
notice than the department proposes to give. He said he is
concerned about the housing market in his community.
Especially in the smaller communities as it will be very
difficult for the people who aren't in Section 8 housing.
He noted that there is a three year waiting list for Section
8 housing. Amendment #4 proposes a 90 day notice be given
so that people will have time to make other living
arrangements, etc. Senator Ellis moved that Amendment #4 be
adopted. Amendment #4 follows:
Page 3, line 16:
Delete "July 1, 1993"
Insert "the effective date of this bill section"
Page 3, line 17:
Delete "After June 30, 1993,"
Insert "On and after the effective date of this
bill section"
Page 4, line 4:
Delete "10"
Insert "11"
Page 4, lines 8 - 9:
Delete all material.
Insert new bill sections to read:
"* Sec. 9. NOTIFICATION TO RECIPIENTS. The
Department of Health and Social Services shall
notify each household that is receiving assistance
under AS 47.25.310 - 47.25.420 or 47.25.430 -
47.25.615 for the month of June 1993, what the
changes will be for the household's assistance
that will be caused by implementation of secs. 1 -
7 of this Act.
"Sec. 10. Sections 8 - 9 of this Act take effect
immediately under AS 01.10.070(c).
"Sec. 11. Sections 1 - 7 of this Act take effect 90
days after all households covered by sec. 9 of
this Act have been mailed the notice required
under sec. 9 of this Act. The commissioner of
health and social services shall promptly notify
the revisor of statutes of the day by which all
required notices under sec. 9 of this Act were
mailed."
SENATOR MILLER objected to the adoption of Amendment #4.
SENATOR SALO said she thinks it is fair to give people
notice as it might give people incentive to somehow try to
improve their living style.
MS. HANSEN said assuming that the changes would take effect
October 1, which would be 90 days, then the reductions would
be 25 percent less. So the $8.6 million AFDC rateable
reduction would be about $6.5 million. The $4 million APA
rateable reduction would be about $3 million, but there
would be a $1 lessening. Ms. Hansen said there wouldn't be
a impact on the COLA because that doesn't kick in until July
1, 1994. She said if Amendment #4 should pass as drafted,
there is one word that creates an even more problematic
change. She referred to section 9 of the proposed
amendment. It says that the department shall notify each
household that is receiving assistance for the month of
June, 1993, as to what the changes will be. The next
section says it will take effect after all households
covered have been mailed the notice. Some households
technically will not receive a benefit for the month of June
until perhaps the month of September. Ms. Hansen said she
hopes that the department isn't backlogged but, in fact
they could be.
TAPE 93-24, SIDE B
Number 001
Ms. Hansen said it could be months before the department
knows all of the households that would qualify for the month
of June because of payments going back to the date of
application.
SENATOR ELLIS said he understands Ms. Hansen's point. He
said he also understands that October is the lowest month in
terms of the caseload. He asked if it would make sense to
try and give notification or coverage in terms of families
on assistance during the highest month. Senator Ellis said
it seems like it would make sense to give out the notices as
widely as possible. Alaska's welfare population is not like
most other states as most people are off of welfare within
two years. We don't have the huge long-term welfare
lifestyle caseload. He said it would seem that we would
want to give the greatest amount of notice possible as there
are people who come on to welfare and there are people who
work in the summers. He said there is a seasonality of the
caseload.
Ms. Hansen said there are larger caseloads in May or June
than there is in October. She said there are hundreds of
people going off of welfare each month and there are
hundreds of people going on to welfare.
SENATOR LEMAN referred to Ms. Hansen saying the COLA
wouldn't kick in until July 1, 1994, and asked if she meant
July 1, 1994 or if she meant January 1, 1994. Ms. Hansen
said she meant January 1, 1994.
SENATOR ELLIS asked Ms. Hansen if she has any suggested
changes to make the bill more palatable. He said he thinks
that the notice is very important. If June is the highest
month, Senator Ellis said he would like the people to
receive notice before they go do their summer fishing, etc.
He noted that there are people who don't check their mail
during the summer as they are at fish camp, etc. Ms. Hansen
said the key would be that the notification of households
who receive an assistance check "in the month of June" as
opposed to "for the month of June" would allow notification
of a large number of households and would not create the
undue delay that she referenced earlier.
CHAIRMAN RIEGER referred to testimony given by Ms. Hansen at
the previous meeting where she stated that the department is
planning to notify people prior to the effective date of the
act. He said it would be hard to put something in the bill
regarding notice because the department is planning to give
notice before the bill is signed by the governor. Ms.
Hansen said the intention is to provide notice to the
clients when the bill has passed the legislature.
Number 058
SENATOR DUNCAN referred to line 3, Section 9, of Amendment
"in the month." CHAIRMAN RIEGER asked if there was an
objection to the amendment to Amendment #4. Hearing no
objection, the motion carried.
SENATOR SHARP referred to Amendment #4 and said his
understanding is that any reductions still wouldn't be
effective until September at the earliest, but probably
October 1. MS. HANSEN referred to households who would
receive a benefit in June and said if the final notification
was sent to those households by July 1, October 1 would be
the earliest that the effective date could be implemented.
SENATOR ELLIS said over the years he has heard complaints
about people receiving their checks late. He asked if there
is any liability if a person receives their check late and
misses a payment for their rent, etc. Ms. Hansen said in
terms of a fiscal liability, there isn't a penalty. She
said there is an attempt to get checks mailed on time
because the department is aware of the impact it could have
on someone. There is not a financial penalty levied against
the state if a check goes out late. Senator Ellis asked if
the department blames complaints on the post office or if
they admit it when checks are mailed late. Ms. Hansen said
the majority of payments that go to clients late are because
the clients submitted their monthly report late and the
department isn't required to process their check by the
first of the month. She noted that currently there are
several hundreds of checks that go out late each month which
are totally the responsibility and fault of the division due
to under staffing.
Senator Ellis asked if there will be any assistance for the
people whose checks will be cut and they will have to move
out of their currently housing. He also asked if there are
statistics showing how many AFDC and APA clients are on
Section 8 vouchers. Ms. Hansen said the information the
department has is from the Alaska State Housing Authority
where approximately 4,000 households, statewide, are on
Section 8 housing. They estimate that one-half of the 4,000
are on public assistance. Ms. Hansen stated that there
aren't any programs to pick up the fiscal impact.
There being no further discussion on Amendment #4, a roll
call vote was taken. Senators Rieger, Sharp, Leman, and
Miller voted against the adoption of Amendment #4.
Senators Duncan, Ellis, and Salo voted in favor of Amendment
SENATOR ELLIS said there is supposed to be approximately $17
million of savings if the bill is passed. He said he has
never agreed that there would be a savings to the state
because of other repercussions. It would only take 1,700
public assistance recipients, funded through the Jobs
Program to transition from welfare to work in the public or
private sector, to equal what is being done with the
reduction in benefits. He said he will continue to point
out the hypocrisy of the legislature not making the
necessary commitment to the Jobs Program in transitional
benefits.
Number 135
There being no further discussion, SENATOR MILLER moved to
pass SB 101 out of the Senate HESS Committee with individual
recommendations.
MS. HANSEN indicated there is a small technical problem with
the bill in Section 2 in which the wrong statute was
referenced. It is located on page 2, line 12. "AS
47.24.320" should be "AS 47.25.320."
Senator Miller asked to withdraw his motion to pass SB 101
out of committee. CHAIRMAN RIEGER moved and asked unanimous
consent that on page 2, line 12, the reference to "AS
47.25.320" be changed to "AS 47.25.320." Hearing no
objection, the motion carried.
Number 154
SENATOR MILLER moved to pass SB 101, as amended, out of the
Senate HESS Committee with individual recommendations.
There was objection. A roll call vote was taken. Senators
Rieger, Sharp, Leman, and Miller voted in favor of the
motion. Senators Duncan, Ellis, and Salo were against the
motion. So SB 101, as amended, was passed out of the Senate
HESS Committee.
There being no further business to come before the Senate
HESS Committee, Chairman Rieger adjourned the meeting at
2:45 p.m.
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